Hi Tom:
Rants has nothing to do with it if you are really doing your
constituent homework. And I agree with you this is all about enticing
ownership in the e27; and the market price seems to prove that over
and over again.
Will suggested I not opt in to this delemma of the weight
malfunction. In fact I never did having owned the boat since July
1984 when there were no limits and none of this regulatory nonsense.
And while I belive the fleet has done well, grown, and made the best
out of the last ten years of exeuctive leadership, its time for a
change. The fleet lost at least two boats to these nonsense rules.
Those are Soren & Lega on Attitude Adjustment and Scott Easom who
wanted to buy an Express and then bought a Moore 24 instead.
As everyone is aware I supported Lega & Soren, and Scott indirectly,
at the National meeting because I believe creativity needs to find
its place in the sense of things. I had no objections. In turn the
option remains open to pursue. Recall through the fleets most rapid
growth stage in terms of quantiies of production there were none of
these nonsense regulations. Like hiking lines noe when before there
were no life lines at all?
Specific to the weight limit. Every engineer, scientist or
mathematician knows I offered the only rational metric why the fleet
needs to seriously consider moving the weight limit to 980 pounds
based on one example from a similar boat; the Moore 24. This metric
includes empiracal visual proof of a mix of the crews, where somehow
this weight propotion in the M24 fleet better does a better job of
mixing up the bunch.
But there's still an issue.
Regardless of the math and empirical observations, speaking about
participation and encouraging ownership: then move the weight limit
to a range supporting six crew members. For every one who has done
their homework there is a surplus of people waiting to crew on these
boats and their weight range is wide. The current weight limit
subsequently limits and in fact, according to many owners, blocks
their access to many of their real existing crew choices. This is a
bottleneck that reduces exposure to the fleet, participation and can
interfere in what might follow.
Not interested in six, then at least open the bottlenecks gate to
allow more people above 200 pounds to enter. There are a lot of us.
Mike
:: Mike-
:: Maybe you should remember that this is an open forum for
:: all to read. I have no problem discussing issues that
:: you have as a class owner however, some of these rants
:: should really not be out there for the public eye. If
:: you really want to make this more fun then think about
:: perspective owners reading our forum and thinking "why
:: should I get into this class?"
::
:: Eric Deeds, and Paul Deeds- is there any way you might
:: be willing to set up a ‘members only’ section with
:: privileges (password protection) so that the owners of
:: the boats can have discussions like the weight issue in
:: private? Many other classes have such capability for
:: their websites for just this reason. Let me just say
:: that I am concerned about this as a couple of people
:: have mentioned the forum rants, one a possible future
:: boat owner who really doesn’t care to get into a class
:: with these kinds of issues.
:: Tom Jenkins
::
:: :: Hi Will:
:: ::
:: :: As I recall on the windy LS of two years ago, which
:: :: Desperado won overall (we were fith overall last year)
:: :: Desperado won the North end of the line, the start, got
:: :: to the ebb elevator first as you were headed toward our
:: :: stearn from the inside. Outside the Gte we changed first
:: :: to the 4 and left you in the dust. We used an incredible
:: :: efficient Hogan main built flat and it was perfect for
:: :: this windy race.
:: ::
:: :: I have no problem with one design racing, except would
:: :: like the weight limit reasonable for big guys like me,
:: :: for ease of finding crew, to make races easier to
:: :: administer, to avoid the juggling I'm doing now locating
:: :: five crew that fit the framework. Plus opening up the
:: :: weight limit makes the boat faster. And there's less
:: :: need for a shy kite.
:: ::
:: :: Until the weight limit is opened to a point people can
:: :: get a consistent crew easily, the same crew pretty
:: :: muchm, you light people sailed boats will keep your
:: :: multiple advantages inluding always having morer weight
:: :: in the right places at the right times.
:: ::
:: :: The minority is who needs to change. Not the majority.
:: ::
:: :: This is the Fun Series. My goal is to make it more Fun.
:: ::
:: :: Mike
:: :: :: Come on Mike. It is not about choice it is about even
:: :: :: ONE DESIGN racing. Having extra weight on the rail is a
:: :: :: tremendous advantage- I remember the last windy light
:: :: :: ship race you were over weight, started late behind
:: :: :: boats, and then sailed in a straight line through our
:: :: :: lee before the bridge. Why not loby for a motor
:: :: :: allowance? Enter your boat in a PHRF class if you must
:: :: :: sail with 6. Have your shot at the race overall trophy.
:: :: :: What does competing in a one design race and not follow
:: :: :: the rules accomplish for you? Of course it could be
:: :: :: light and you could be bobbing far behind the fleet
:: :: :: because you would be underpowered- but then everyone
:: :: :: else would be bobbing next to you because they had to
:: :: :: bring 6 in order to keep up...
:: ::
:: :: :: If the race rules allow you to sail in a one design
:: :: :: class without following the one design rules then I
:: :: :: guess we can't do anything about that- just volunteer to
:: :: :: opt out of the season scoring.
:: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Hi Will:
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: I'll look forward to reading any of your proposals.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: My friends work schedule is such that if he's available,
:: :: :: :: he'd just jump on, subsequently would result in a sixth
:: :: :: :: . . . which I don't mind.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: So my complaint about the fleet rules in the fun series
:: :: :: :: is they don't allow an essential freedom of choice.
:: :: :: :: Which also seem to apply to others who were limitied in
:: :: :: :: their choices for the real fleet series.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: The friggin shy kite is legal under the class rules if
:: :: :: :: :: it is not under the minimum size. The allowable size is
:: :: :: :: :: very small- can't imagine having one smaller. This rule
:: :: :: :: :: like all the others is enforced by the honor system.
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: Take your friend sailing when it is not a class race and
:: :: :: :: :: not a rule violation. I can recall many a fun non race
:: :: :: :: :: day cruise on your boat myself...
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Honest:
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: I'm open to anything. Even a shy kite (less than mid
:: :: :: :: :: :: girth max) because it can be an awesum advantage on a
:: :: :: :: :: :: windy reach coming back from the LightShip or Farallons.
:: :: :: :: :: :: A BIG ADVANTAGE known to take home many a first place
:: :: :: :: :: :: cups.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: No doubt, I'd like to use my specialty ocean sails . . .
:: :: :: :: :: :: which do not include either a shy runner or reacher.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: But would like to take my frend who would like to make
:: :: :: :: :: :: the race . . .but only has time (with a new job) to make
:: :: :: :: :: :: maybe one race a year? Which is his record last year for
:: :: :: :: :: :: this one LS race. I'dust like to place him on the boat
:: :: :: :: :: :: with everyone else as a sixth.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: And yeah, we'd be overweight. But who in TFCares:-).
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Thats why the weight limit has to be changed in the Fun
:: :: :: :: :: :: Series.
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Because the round the bouy race rules ar not fun in the
:: :: :: :: :: :: Fun Series.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: If the fleet allows shy kites . . . I want my sixth
:: :: :: :: :: :: person . . .becuase the moments on the boat with the
:: :: :: :: :: :: sixth and full kite are probabley about the same as five
:: :: :: :: :: :: and a shy kite.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Shy kites or reachers are the same thing. There is a
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: minimum size written in the class rule. A small kite
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: conforming to the class rule would be totally legal for
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: any event. I would like to see the 'outside the gate'
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: sail rules opened up as well. The class is currently
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: writing up the procedure for revising the rules and I
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: intend to introduce my proposal then.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: The class maximum weight should still be followed. I'm
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: sure the SI's state that class rules apply to a given
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: one design class for OYRA. Certainly it would if you
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: want your score to count for the season trophy.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Otherwise we would all have to sail heavy, have heavy
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: designed sails, more lunches, ect...
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Will
:: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Hi Everyone:
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Desperado is doing LightShip and doublehanded
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Farallones.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: I don't have any problem with anyone bringing their
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ocean gear. Or shy kite.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: In fact, might I add the question are boats fully
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: compliant with all the safety gear? Its a lot of extra
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: weight that can also add inequity reqardless of the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: safety requirement.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: I have a sixth crew that wants to go on LightShip does
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: anyone mind a little extra weight?
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: From my recollection at the '07 Nationals Skipper's
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: meeting, shykites would be OK for class races scheduled
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: beyond Pt. Bonita, but that specialty kites like
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: reachers would not. Few opinions were that it would lead
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: to a cost prohibitive arms race. Those people wishing to
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: use the specialty kites could still race under their
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: regular PHRF. Is my recollection correct? Help me out
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: here, guys! But yes, nothing as been added to the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: written rules yet.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Joe B.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Last year was the first time in the 8 years I've done
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: the doublehanded Farallones race that the class
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: disallowed shykites. It had always been agreed upon that
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: outside the gate we could sail with anything allowable
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: under PHRF, i.e. shykites, reachers, etc. This
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: arrangement was supposed to have been written into the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: rules. I plan on going this year and ,would like to race
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: with the class and bring all my ocean equipment.
