Ultralight Crew Weight Differences

Melgas 24, 1500 dis, 793 crew, 52% total, e27 = 1274-1352 @ 52%

Melgas 32, 3900 dis, 1480 cre, 38% total, e27 = 931 - 988 @ 38%

Antrim 27 , 2600 dis, 1000 cre, 38% total, e27 = 931- 988 @ 38%

Moore 24 , 2050 dis, 825 crew, 40% total, e27 = 890-1040 @ 40%

Expres27, 2450-2600, 880 cre, 34 - 36% base example

Olson 30, 3750 dis, 1100 crew, 29% totaL, E27 = 710 - 754

S Cruz27, 3000 dis,

:: Hi Bob:
::
:: Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the J24 example, yet
:: I am trying to calculate why the visual differece in the
:: breadth of crew on Moore 24's; woman, lite weights, mid
:: weights, heavy weights . . . against another
:: ulttralight. And that answer is becuase the M24s mid
:: weight filter is 205#s.
:: So I'm trying to compare two ultralights. Not an
:: ultralight and a displacement boat. So I think your J24
:: example while in the same method is less than ideally
:: suited for comparing diviations between two ultralights.
:: Thank you for bringing up this metric again. Perhaps you
:: can chose some ultralight to ultrlight comparisons and
:: offer the results.

:: Specific to the class weight limit, I should weigh in
:: around 230 pounds of the e27 class scale given
:: historical precedence. I can say at that weight with
:: other crew choices limited right around the fleet 179
:: pound mid point which is your American Average, makes it
:: almost impossible for me to field a Real Fleet Series
:: team. With five I'm high with four I'm way under.
::
:: That means I can't get a crew to meet the weight
:: requirement on the average all the time for the Real
:: Fleet Series. Certainly not for an entire season, which
:: is my main issue, where the same people work togther
:: over and over again to gain a Real Fleet boat handling
:: advantage. That is virtually impossible for me under the
:: current system.
::
:: So I don't, essentially cannot field a team in the Real
:: Fleet Series and therefore focus on the Fun Series.
:: Where I am advocating for some changes. Changes that
:: will enable me to sail without all the adminsitrative
:: hassle I'm going through attempting to gather five
:: people together at the 880# limit. And to do that over
:: and over again for each and every race all season long;
:: to gain the boat handling advantage.
::
:: More important, I think, is that a weight change up can
:: open the flood gates to a whole category or real and
:: existing crew choices the fleet has by and large turned
:: away in the 190 - 230 + category.

:: This is an important fleet issue about all the people
:: who want to sail e27 and cannot given the way the 176#
:: filter limits their partici[pation. And this is a
:: negative for any fleet either not recognizing or
:: addressing this opportunity to expand the ranks of crew
:: and owners in this category of individuals And that is
:: because this is where the highest growth of new
:: participants can come from. And that is because it can
:: grow from a near zero base not having been recruited
:: from for at least a decade.
::
:: Important to note is that in my seven owner sample, it
:: wasn't just the case of turing one or two 200+#ers away.
:: It was in a couple of cases turning away 4 and 5 people
:: who were real and existing crew choices in this higher
:: weight category that could not get on the boat because
:: of the current weight limit's low threashold.
::
:: Probability sugests this mean across each owners racing
:: phone book, there is probably greater than 40 people who
:: want a ride and can't get one. And that becuase they're
:: weight skews to the higher side of 176 and into a range
:: of weight that the fleet does in fact turn away.
::
:: Regardless of my issues getting down to an impossible
:: weight, this issue of restricting growth from this 190 -
:: 230ish pound category has got to change. That's becuase
:: it offer the greatest chance of fleet growth filling in
:: a gap where their is currently a zero base to grow from.
::
:: Mike
::
::
:: ::
:: :: Let's see .....
:: ::
:: :: (Goofy math One)
::
:: :: The average American male weighs 185 pounds and the
:: :: average American female weighs 163 (we'll say 165 just
:: :: for giggles). Since there's about a 50/50 mix of the
:: :: two, it follows that the average American weighs 175
:: :: pounds.
:: ::
:: :: I've observed that the Express is the most fun to sail
:: :: with 4 to 5 people. Any more and they're just meat. Any
:: :: less and there's a competitive disadvantage. So, for
:: :: this math problem, we'll pick five. Five average
:: :: Americans would weigh 875 pounds. Move away from that
:: :: number and you'll bias in favor of something other than
:: :: the average (very un-American!).
:: ::
:: :: (Goofy math Two)
::
:: :: One of the most successful one design keel boats of all
:: :: time is the J24 (the boat everyone loves to hate). The
:: :: J24 dry weight is 1270 Kgs. The J24 class rules allow a
:: :: maximum crew weight of 400 Kgs. This yields a ratio of
:: :: about 31.5%. Taking the Express 27s dry weight of 2450
:: :: pounds, the J24 class equivalent crew weight would be
:: :: ..... tada ..... 771.5 pounds! Not suggesting we lower
:: :: our class weight, but math applied to a successful class
:: :: would certainly seem to support it.
:: ::
:: :: (Summary Discussion)
::
:: :: I own hull #93 and sail one design at the Detroit NOODs.
:: :: I weigh about 195 lbs. I sail with two of my buddies who
:: :: weigh about 280 pounds each and a female doctor bud who
:: :: tips the scales at (maybe) 115. I think we're pretty
:: :: competitive, but maybe that's just my ego talking.
:: ::
:: :: You can 'prove' just about anything you'd like with
:: :: numbers ... that's why politicians use polls and
:: :: percentages so willingly.
:: ::
:: :: The boats are fun to sail as the rules exist now. Used
:: :: boats are not sitting on the market, so there's no
:: :: indication that something needs fixing. No matter where
:: :: the number is fixed, someone will be able to complain
:: :: that it biases against them. Part of any boats challenge
:: :: lies in overcoming any weakness in your program.
:: ::
:: :: Thanks for playing!
:: ::
:: :: Bob Harvey
::
:: :: (do I win any kind of a prize?)