Thread circulated among e27, O30, M24 reported audit of PHRF committee members, Sailing Anarchy NC PHRF threads, other sources by this analyst.

Down wind PHRF committee rating discussion based on fringe boats in Pac Cup, Ditch and Coastal only.

These are the bad guy Hobbie 33, Henderson 33, Melgas 24 and Wabbitt on light side. West Sail 32 and Crealock 40 on heavy side.

One PHRF committee member notes 8 years of data capable of anlaysis; but that has not happened. Where down wind penalty is now imposed on everyone to support a minority of the fleet. I'll address this in summary.

Committee did mention it is up to each YC RC to implement or not. I vote not to implement in Northern California.

Decision to impose dw ratings across the entire fleet is on fringe boats only. Boats for which I do not have rating concerns having beaten Hobbie 33 Sleeping Dragon boat for boat on Spin Cup .

Then there are those peskie Wabbits on Ditch Run; win some lose some.

And the Melgas 24 . . . leave it to Don Jesberg he's good.

Committee genuinely desires to innovate and offer equity for down wind. Noted Pac Cup has long time adopted downwind rating (in trades).

Noted LA where they have buoy, point to point and random course ratings. How confusing. I'm for simple.

Is the next complexity imposing a wind speed allowance? Fortunately all committee members thought that was a bad idea.

Personally, I'm happy with my current e27 all around rating of 129 and believe the majority of all other boats happy with their all around proven 'peer reviewed' NC PHRF ratings.

I disagree with emulating what is thought to be leading edge for Pac Cup and LA PHRF . . . except for Pac Cup and LA PHRF which is not racing around here.

Further, I oppose dw penalty for all inland bay that can be anything from downwind and rarely planinng down wind.

Like Jazz in fall.

And oppose on Ditch which is all around points of sail despite a fetch . . . mostly in light wind . . . except sometimes from Susun Bay to New York Cut. And between Antioch and Santra Clara Slough.

Overall Ditch is a displacement course.

Committee definitely disliked the idea of dw being applied to Vallejo

For local ocean; Spin and Wind Jammers can be slow going, including at end of course. Windjammers in fall can be upwind.

Coastal can also be slow going in the end.

Plus there are heavy and light boat divisons and that works fine by me.

I suggest some of the goodwill value of our light old fiberglass boats is based on 30 years of Northern California 'peer reviewed' rating evolution. And want to keep it that way. Regardless of the anolog or fuzzy logic inherent in our current 'buoy' all around ratings. They are peer reviewed from all conditions.

Also suggesting this down wind penalty detracts from some of our light old fiberglass boats goodwill value. Detracting from what makes e27 a class where there is always a surplus of potential new owners. e27 is great buy regardless. But why lose the PHRF 129 incentive. Especially when you own one.

Believe the same for O30, SC 27, M24.

Yes, yes, yes we race in class and O30, SC 27 dw deltas are same. And M24 similar depsite our giviing them a few seconds Moore now under dw penalty.

And what's that all about where Moore 24 sail to weight is more powerful then e27? I heard this annomaly under review similar to e37.

Understand e37 downwind rating annomally of slower now addressed on honorable concerns; now differing from the exact dw rating formula itself.

So don't be fooled. Boats currently racing in class formats are being manipulated into submission within their box. Feel the pain and don't be fooled by the immediate lack of it.

Noteworthy the light old fiberglass boats this dw penalty hurts most are boats that no longer have a class assoication. I recommend joining into a coalition to keep our all around condition NC PHRF ratings as is.

So here's the core issue.

Some heavy boats want to win overall. Because that's what you do with certain IRC boats in these target races; Spin, Vallejo, Ditch, Coastal, Jazz, Wind Jam, Jazz, Spin.

The key issue is with dw adjustments on heavy boats is that their dw rating is now masked within everyone else's down wind penalty change.

By imposing this new down wind rating on everyone, PHRF Committee has effectively masked a forumalc change across majority to support miniorty based on a handful of fringe boats.

Now I do symapathize with all heavy boats. And I'm not opposed to displacement boats getting some sort of slower downwind rating allowance.

In turn, committee has option to modify some light boat ratings and hear challenges.

My reasoning for keeping what we have is this is the way NC PHRF has always been; peer reviewed rating adjustments by individual boat; for transparency.

On a boat by boat basis everyone knows if the adustment works and can easily challenge it. But not when a minority change is now masked over by a majority; over favorable dw ratings are now tougher to see.

I vote to oppose dw rating penalty given all around 129 rating; race proven, 30 years, peer reviewed, all kinds of boats, all kinds of courses, all kinds of conditions no formula can emulate.

I vote for heavy boats concerned with their downwind ratings to pay the $40 and challenge them.

Keep e27 at 129.

mb

:: I Won't go with more than 3. I think the new downwind
:: ratings are a good idea but are in need of development
:: before implementation

:: Will
::
:: :: From a recent email, regarding Delta Ditch and the new
:: :: down wind race ratings, SSC and RYC has discussed, but
:: :: no decision has been reached to date.
:: ::
:: :: I agree with the message below, that we focus on
:: :: building our class.
:: ::
:: :: We are planning on racing with 3 or 4 for the Ditch this
:: :: year.
:: ::
:: :: Regards,
::
:: :: Peggy.
:: ::
:: :: :: I like doing the Ditch with 3 or 4 in the boat. Relief
:: :: :: helm and trim to rotate out of the sun. Any word if the
:: :: :: Ditch Run will use the downwind ratings? Steve Katzman
:: :: ::
:: :: :: :: I would like to float the idea of setting a minimum
:: :: :: :: headcount for the Ditch Run. I think this is great,
:: :: :: :: unique race that should be shared with as many people as
:: :: :: :: possible and seeing the boats with 2 people on board
:: :: :: :: while fun and challenging, is unfortunate for all of
:: :: :: :: those left behind.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: I am not sure how the Express will stack up to an
:: :: :: :: overall win using the new downwind PHRF rating so we
:: :: :: :: should probably focus on building our class profile
:: :: :: :: instead of fighting the Moore and Melges for an overall
:: :: :: :: spot.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: I think this would help build the class reputation as a
:: :: :: :: fun and inclusive group of sailors.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Nick Gibbens - Shenanigans #67
:: :: ::
:: :: :: :: SFYC