Hi Will:

I'm obviously and advocate of increasing the weight limit to between 1030 and 1050# . . . which is no where near 1200# . . . and in my opinon no where near boat breaking.

Cheers

MB

:: Mike,

:: You are my friend so with all due respect I think it is
:: important to debate this from both sides.
::
:: First of all the class has been very stable for 10+
:: years and if it ain't broke don't fix it!
::
:: I am 165# and have a 250# crew man and 2 girls and 1
:: young guy to round things out. I first sailed in these
:: boats as a junior with you and Mike H. and have never
:: forgotten the good times. Thanks!
::
:: As the class measurer I am concerned about the boats and
:: they are getting older along with the rest of us. Lets
:: not make things harder on us all!
::
:: Also I do not want to sail with 6 crew or sail with the
:: # 1 into 20kts of breeze. This is what upping the weight
:: limit would mean to many of us- as well as the need to
:: buy a whole new sail inventory and what not. I am a
:: sailmaker but an Express owner first!
::
:: Fly weight drivers or heavy drivers- Jeff weighs about
:: 250 and won the nationals 2 years ago as the driver. I
:: am sure that a veteran crew of 4 big guys could find a
:: way to duke it out with the rest of us.
::
:: I like your proposals for a fun serries or long distance
:: serries. I hope the Desperado will sail over to the TYC
:: for a beer and dinner on saturday.

:: Cheers,

:: Will
::
:: :: Hi Will:
:: ::
:: :: I understand your point that five people are easy to
:: :: administer . . . and four our even easier if that's
:: :: what's needed to make the 880# limit.
:: ::
:: :: And as your aware, I've never been prejudice to
:: :: recruits; whether juniors, woman, or other lighter
:: :: people, except when they are little people forming a
:: :: voting block to impose a weight restriction which favors
:: :: them and all of their little cohorts.
:: ::
:: :: Please note, four crew at 880# have a distinct
:: :: disadvantage against five crew at 880#. Those
:: :: disadvantages are associated with one of the two heavier
:: :: people being off the rail through a tack to pull in the
:: :: headsail. And, for the first few seconds afterwards,
:: :: only one person really is hiking out on the rail.
:: ::
:: :: So five people at 880# have an advantage over four
:: :: people at 880# through the tacks. More of them are on
:: :: the rail following the tack . . . and less of them,
:: :: wieght wise, are off the rail.
:: ::
:: :: Additionally, I weigh between 230 and 250, and my butt's
:: :: in the back of the boat, all the time, regardless of
:: :: when maneuvering. People around my weight have a
:: :: material disadvantage, all the time, with the 880# limit
:: :: because we present a quarter of that limit . . . in the
:: :: back of the boat.
:: ::
:: :: Now, you might be lucky enough to be an iternally skinny
:: :: guy. But for most of us post 40 types, that's not the
:: :: way nature works; regardless of whether we like beer and
:: :: wine; or not.
:: ::
:: :: I'm not saying its impossible to be competitive with
:: :: four . . . but to pick up your point . . . simply that
:: :: it is not equal.
:: ::
:: :: Per your point that boats blow up with 1050#s of crew.
:: :: Sorry, that's simply fallacy. I've raced with
:: :: extraordinarily heavy crew; from time to time. And the
:: :: only structural fatigues were associated with things
:: :: that wern't engineered quite right to begin with
:: :: regardless of how much weight was on the boat. Just look
:: :: at the Light'n Up sailing with 12 to 15 all the time.
:: :: The boats in great shape.
::
:: :: Again, the ideal weight for the boat is around 1050#.
:: :: And, its easy to find five normal Americans too fit that
:: :: framework.
:: ::
:: :: Further, when I weighed 165 pounds at 6' 1", I sailed
:: :: the boat with six, at 1030 to 1050#. So, here's an
:: :: opportunity to take the junior or girl friend. I know, I
:: :: know, its an extra sandwich . . . and someone's job
:: :: becomes delgated to the vang and cunningham. But for the
:: :: owners, the boats are much more fun so sail as much more
:: :: powerful; especially upwind.
:: ::
:: :: :: Mike,
:: ::
:: :: :: I know for a bigger guy finding 5 that fit in the weight
:: :: :: limit can be tough- but a weight limit is critical for
:: :: :: fair racing on our light boats. Elimination of the
:: :: :: weight limit would lead to the elimination of small
:: :: :: people (Ladies!) from sailing the boats, increased wear
:: :: :: and tear from sailing with much more weight, the need to
:: :: :: buy new sail inventories to take advantage of more
:: :: :: righting moment, and less comfortable (and expensive
:: :: :: sailing!) because most boats would have to sail with 6
:: :: :: to be competitive. Trying to find that one person big or
:: :: :: small to hit the weight right can be tricky- but do you
:: :: :: want it to be all about finding the 6 biggest all the
:: :: :: time? The Moore 24 class recently imposed a weight limit
:: :: :: for just this reason!
:: ::
:: :: :: In the old days with the 1000# crew weight many more
:: :: :: Expresses lost rigs, broke gear, and even seperated
:: :: :: bulkheads trying to sail around in 18-20kts with their
:: :: :: number 1 up. This does NOT sound like fun to me! The
:: :: :: 880# weight limit is more comfortable to sail the boat
:: :: :: with, cheaper in MANY ways, and is more inclusive of
:: :: :: woman and juniors that are all important to fun sailing
:: :: :: and the future of our class!
:: ::
:: :: :: As a solution it is possible to sail competitively with
:: :: :: 4 big guys- Jeff Thorpe got third in his first Nationals
:: :: :: in 98 like this. Also invite juniors from your yacht
:: :: :: club to join your team. Young kids are eager, hard
:: :: :: working, and soak up waves on the bow better than us
:: :: :: older people.
:: ::
:: :: :: Cheers Mike- I hope to see you join the fleet for some
:: :: :: one design racing soon!
:: :: ::
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Please see Tiburon Yacht Club Event Bulletin Board to
:: :: :: :: chime in on re-exaimining the virtues (OR NOT) of the
:: :: :: :: 880# weight limit.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Mike Bruzzone