Hi Will:

Yes, I would like to see the Fun Series unchained from the politics of the existing fleet's structure. And that is to raise participation, grow the Fun series as a seperate segment from Real Fleet Series and to add value to the entire fleet from within the Fun Series.

By the second year of the Fun Series originally designed as a Long Distance Race in fleet PHRF we had grownthe fleet to 4-5. Last year that progress went backwards; a worthy experiment but one I think set the Fun Series back as its own unique development.

I envison that Fun Series as day races, combination of ocean and bay, some double handed races, but no multiple race day around the bouys. And that is because the Real Fleet Series already has that segment sewn up.

Now that's not to say I dislike Vallejo or Ditch as a combined series day race; because I do not. But if freedom from these two races will enable the Fun Series to grow in its own ways I support that change.

For fleet growth look toward extension, not duplication, to compliment and not to compete against. That receipe is designed to get other boats sailing, some with heavier people, and to attract the interest of those who sail now whose preferences may in some way be additonally served by this additional offering.

To support Fun Series growth, I thinkit necessary to see the weight limit moved up, in the Fun Series only, so those of us without optimizied, or steady crews, or those who recruit from an extended crew list can easily adminmister crew and field an entry on any occasion.

Also, I dislike how the weight limit has been used to exclude heavier skipeers including JM and JT; which wasn't the current managements doing but continues to support that effect.

And how the current weight limits enables boats such as your to optimize around one 230#er, and four other crew whose weights are of very little variance because your a skinny guy. I'd say wait a few years but you don't seem to gain weight regardless.

Further to open up the weight limit, for the Fun Series only, to gain access to existing and real crew choices the current weight limit filters out; that is prevents participaton thenmore that persons weight rises above the the 176# mean average. Over 210# the current weight limit makes people above 210 an annomal. And for the 880# crew weight advantage just described.

Logic dictates there are women, teenagers, lite and mid weights in the fleet but where are the heavier weights. I'm one of them. And in the e27 fleet under the current weight framework a natural distribution above the 176# mean average means fewer of us are ellaowed to participate. And others are left on teh docks.

How many owners are there with their boats on the hard this category? How many real and existing crew choices are left out. I'll I'm appealing for is to enable people like me, and people of similar thought, to take the Fun Series and make it into something that adds an excellent compliment to the fleet.

Finally, allowing the Fun Series to grow on its own merits, so those interested in this way of participating can grow and add value to the fleet will achieve one of four outcomes as a compliment. In three years unshackled from the Real Fleet administration there will be 1) a trial failure 2) an evolutionary effort that fails to achieve necessary traction, 3) a growth catalyst including one which can feed into the Real Fleet races 4) a regualtory fuse in which the Fun Series will overcome the Real Fleet Series in numbers encouraging Real Fleet change and positive change management.

Mike

:: Mike,

:: You better work on your recall. You were stuffed trying
:: to start on the outside of the line and started late in
:: bad air. We hit the shift towards the club and crossed
:: everybody. You sailed through the lee of the entire
:: fleet and caught up to us at pt bonita. The speed
:: possible only because you were 200# overweight. This is
:: why we have a limit and why raising the limit would
:: cause most of us to sail with 6 if we were to take the
:: race seriously.

:: On the other side of the weight equation we were forced
:: to sail 50 pounds light because of the crew we had
:: available- and that we were honoring the weight limit.
:: If everyone had followed the rules and at least
:: attempted to be close to the rule we would have still
:: been competitive instead of at a 200+ pound
:: disadvantage. Anything short of that invites anarchy and
:: fracture of the fleet.

:: Will
::
:: :: Hi Will:
:: ::
:: :: As I recall on the windy LS of two years ago, which
:: :: Desperado won overall (we were fith overall last year)
:: :: Desperado won the North end of the line, the start, got
:: :: to the ebb elevator first as you were headed toward our
:: :: stearn from the inside. Outside the Gte we changed first
:: :: to the 4 and left you in the dust. We used an incredible
:: :: efficient Hogan main built flat and it was perfect for
:: :: this windy race.
:: ::
:: :: I have no problem with one design racing, except would
:: :: like the weight limit reasonable for big guys like me,
:: :: for ease of finding crew, to make races easier to
:: :: administer, to avoid the juggling I'm doing now locating
:: :: five crew that fit the framework. Plus opening up the
:: :: weight limit makes the boat faster. And there's less
:: :: need for a shy kite.
:: ::
:: :: Until the weight limit is opened to a point people can
:: :: get a consistent crew easily, the same crew pretty
:: :: muchm, you light people sailed boats will keep your
:: :: multiple advantages inluding always having morer weight
:: :: in the right places at the right times.
:: ::
:: :: The minority is who needs to change. Not the majority.
:: ::
:: :: This is the Fun Series. My goal is to make it more Fun.
:: ::
:: :: Mike
:: :: :: Come on Mike. It is not about choice it is about even
:: :: :: ONE DESIGN racing. Having extra weight on the rail is a
:: :: :: tremendous advantage- I remember the last windy light
:: :: :: ship race you were over weight, started late behind
:: :: :: boats, and then sailed in a straight line through our
:: :: :: lee before the bridge. Why not loby for a motor
:: :: :: allowance? Enter your boat in a PHRF class if you must
:: :: :: sail with 6. Have your shot at the race overall trophy.
:: :: :: What does competing in a one design race and not follow
:: :: :: the rules accomplish for you? Of course it could be
:: :: :: light and you could be bobbing far behind the fleet
:: :: :: because you would be underpowered- but then everyone
:: :: :: else would be bobbing next to you because they had to
:: :: :: bring 6 in order to keep up...
:: ::
:: :: :: If the race rules allow you to sail in a one design
:: :: :: class without following the one design rules then I
:: :: :: guess we can't do anything about that- just volunteer to
:: :: :: opt out of the season scoring.
:: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Hi Will:
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: I'll look forward to reading any of your proposals.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: My friends work schedule is such that if he's available,
:: :: :: :: he'd just jump on, subsequently would result in a sixth
:: :: :: :: . . . which I don't mind.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: So my complaint about the fleet rules in the fun series
:: :: :: :: is they don't allow an essential freedom of choice.
:: :: :: :: Which also seem to apply to others who were limitied in
:: :: :: :: their choices for the real fleet series.
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: The friggin shy kite is legal under the class rules if
:: :: :: :: :: it is not under the minimum size. The allowable size is
:: :: :: :: :: very small- can't imagine having one smaller. This rule
:: :: :: :: :: like all the others is enforced by the honor system.
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: Take your friend sailing when it is not a class race and
:: :: :: :: :: not a rule violation. I can recall many a fun non race
:: :: :: :: :: day cruise on your boat myself...
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Honest:
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: I'm open to anything. Even a shy kite (less than mid
:: :: :: :: :: :: girth max) because it can be an awesum advantage on a
:: :: :: :: :: :: windy reach coming back from the LightShip or Farallons.
:: :: :: :: :: :: A BIG ADVANTAGE known to take home many a first place
:: :: :: :: :: :: cups.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: No doubt, I'd like to use my specialty ocean sails . . .
:: :: :: :: :: :: which do not include either a shy runner or reacher.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: But would like to take my frend who would like to make
:: :: :: :: :: :: the race . . .but only has time (with a new job) to make
:: :: :: :: :: :: maybe one race a year? Which is his record last year for
:: :: :: :: :: :: this one LS race. I'dust like to place him on the boat
:: :: :: :: :: :: with everyone else as a sixth.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: And yeah, we'd be overweight. But who in TFCares:-).
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Thats why the weight limit has to be changed in the Fun
:: :: :: :: :: :: Series.
:: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Because the round the bouy race rules ar not fun in the
:: :: :: :: :: :: Fun Series.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: If the fleet allows shy kites . . . I want my sixth
:: :: :: :: :: :: person . . .becuase the moments on the boat with the
:: :: :: :: :: :: sixth and full kite are probabley about the same as five
:: :: :: :: :: :: and a shy kite.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Shy kites or reachers are the same thing. There is a
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: minimum size written in the class rule. A small kite
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: conforming to the class rule would be totally legal for
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: any event. I would like to see the 'outside the gate'
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: sail rules opened up as well. The class is currently
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: writing up the procedure for revising the rules and I
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: intend to introduce my proposal then.
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: The class maximum weight should still be followed. I'm
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: sure the SI's state that class rules apply to a given
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: one design class for OYRA. Certainly it would if you
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: want your score to count for the season trophy.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Otherwise we would all have to sail heavy, have heavy
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: designed sails, more lunches, ect...
:: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: Will
:: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Hi Everyone:
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Desperado is doing LightShip and doublehanded
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Farallones.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: I don't have any problem with anyone bringing their
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ocean gear. Or shy kite.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: In fact, might I add the question are boats fully
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: compliant with all the safety gear? Its a lot of extra
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: weight that can also add inequity reqardless of the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: safety requirement.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: I have a sixth crew that wants to go on LightShip does
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: anyone mind a little extra weight?
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Mike
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: From my recollection at the '07 Nationals Skipper's
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: meeting, shykites would be OK for class races scheduled
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: beyond Pt. Bonita, but that specialty kites like
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: reachers would not. Few opinions were that it would lead
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: to a cost prohibitive arms race. Those people wishing to
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: use the specialty kites could still race under their
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: regular PHRF. Is my recollection correct? Help me out
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: here, guys! But yes, nothing as been added to the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: written rules yet.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Joe B.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Last year was the first time in the 8 years I've done
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: the doublehanded Farallones race that the class
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: disallowed shykites. It had always been agreed upon that
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: outside the gate we could sail with anything allowable
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: under PHRF, i.e. shykites, reachers, etc. This
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: arrangement was supposed to have been written into the
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: rules. I plan on going this year and ,would like to race
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: with the class and bring all my ocean equipment.