I agree with Mark on the weight limit. Even if we increase the weight limit, it will always be difficult getting the right mix of skills while trying to be as close to max weight as possible. The current limit of 880 pounds does encourage you to include a woman or junior in your crew, and I agree that this is a good thing. I disagree that it is difficult for large skippers to make 880 pounds work. For example, if the skipper weighs 200 pounds and the crew includes one woman or junior that weighs 140 pounds (there are 4 currently listed on our fleet's crewlist) that allows for three large folks averaging 180 pounds each.

Just my thoughts.

Dan Pruzan

:: Some of you might recall that at the very first fleet
:: meeting I attended at the StFYC (2003?), I put forth the
:: idea of raising the weight limit. I thought I was going
:: to be excommunicated on the spot, or shot. It seemed
:: that I had inadvertently touched the 3rd rail of
:: express27 fleet politics -- have since learned to live
:: with it, and have used it as an incentive for my sorry
:: fat ass to drop some weight. No matter what the weight
:: limit is, you will still have to play a complex game to
:: fill out your crew roster with the right skills,
:: availability, and weights to get as close to the weight
:: limit as you can-- that part won't go away.
::
:: Would it be easier if the limit were 980, probably, if
:: you weren't trying to get some women on the boat.
:: Personally, I like the idea of having more women out
:: there... it does tend to reduce the testosterone factor
:: at the mark roundings... at least a little... this is a
:: good thing.... as much as I hate to admit. On balance,
:: personally, I am OK with the limit where it is.
::
:: On the headsail issue, I don't particularly like sailing
:: with #1, either, however, if you going to be competitive
:: in events which have a PHRF component... you have to
:: have it. And most of the time sailing on the ocean, you
:: really need it. Also, the ability to make the call of
:: which headsail to go with before a buoy race forces one
:: to be a better judge of what the wind really is at the
:: moment, and what it is likely to do before you get to
:: the top mark. And, making those headsail changes around
:: the buoys puts a premium on crew-work. I don't see this
:: as a bad thing. Yes, it is puts an added complexity in
:: there, but, if you want more easy going laid back racing
:: we have that too in the LD series.
::
:: But, as Jason said earlier on this thread, we need to be
:: thinking about what is best for the fleet, and what will
:: lead to greater participation and more boats on the
:: line.
::
:: In that regard, one more thought about the comparison
:: between the expresses and moore 24s. I think the major
:: reason there are more moore's actively racing is cost,
:: when I bought my express it was over twice the cost of
:: what a comparable quality moore 24. I think there are
:: more Moores out their racing because they are
:: cheaper...I think that is the biggest factor at least.
:: But, frankly I am very glad I bought an express... much
:: more comfortable.
::
:: Just my nickles worth...
::
:: Mark Lowry
::
:: :: Hi Jason, everyone else monitoring or chiming in: Please
:: :: do chime in.
:: ::
:: :: On getting more boats to the starting line I think this
:: :: years slimmed down schedule, at least in the Fun Series,
:: :: is a good start to get more boats on the line
:: :: consistently. But, I'll also say, that the Fleet Series
:: :: this year is a serious undertaking from the standpoint
:: :: of as Grand Prix as you can get around here and I think
:: :: thats the purpose of that series.
:: ::
:: :: As far as my encouraging that the weight limit be raised
:: :: 100#, that's simply to make it easier, for me at least,
:: :: to sustain a decent crew from a cast of crew member
:: :: choices through the season. Which includes accomodating
:: :: the crew exchange situation I've gotten myself into for
:: :: sailing on a number of different boats. Maybe we only
:: :: raise the weight limit for the Fun Series (100#s) as a
:: :: one year test revisted at the begining of the 2009
:: :: season.
:: ::
:: :: Further, I don't believe raising the weight limit by
:: :: 100# will hurt attendance. Nor do I believe it will
:: :: dramatically increase attendance. Simply, that it allows
:: :: a wider range of crew choices to sail the boat through
:: :: the year without having to get all caught up in meeting
:: :: what I believe to be a low weight barrier in terms of
:: :: ease of administration of sustaining crew for the the
:: :: 'low hassle' Fun series. Followed by all those other
:: :: reasons I've previously voiced.
:: ::
:: :: Specific to small headsails for the Fun Series, well,
:: :: one of the ideas of opening the weight limit here was
:: :: also to compete with the superset of the PHRF fleet in
:: :: some of these races such as the Lightship. And who knows
:: :: what other Fun races might be included in the Fun
:: :: schedule into the future; that might include PHRF
:: :: competitors, or fleet honors under the PHRF rating
:: :: system.
:: ::
:: :: So, for the Fun Series, I'm still an advocate of the
:: :: 155% max headsail. For the Fleet Series I don't really
:: :: care, believe trying something different is good in
:: :: terms of experimentation, however, would counsel
:: :: evolutionary change and improvements to that change
:: :: managed in small steps rather than big radical steps.
:: :: Here again I suggest the +100# test in the Fun Series.
:: ::
:: :: Specfic to what the Moore fleet does better than E27 to
:: :: get more boats on the line, I don't think they do a lot
:: :: better in terms of ease of adminisitration. The Road
:: :: Master Series is logictically complex and an expensive
:: :: outting. That includes Fleet Admin putting on all the
:: :: barbeques, mixers, dinners and beer kegs. And, we can do
:: :: that here without having to travel 100's of miles.
:: ::
:: :: The Moore fleet has also been a little laxer in the past
:: :: on non owner drivers and I've always abstained on limits
:: :: being put on who can drive an E27 is a major regatta.
:: :: And that's because I don't care if there are pro drivers
:: :: in the fleet. Specific to class hoppers, well, very few
:: :: full time owners want to sail against class hoppers.
:: :: Although, I think they raise the level of visible
:: :: competion in a fleet. And would not object to opening
:: :: this option as an experiment.
:: ::
:: :: One other series schedule idea is to repeat what was
:: :: attempted last year going to Huntington; but in this
:: :: case designating such a regatta as one off and not
:: :: included in any series. I'd suggest this year's Monterey
:: :: Race might qualify as such a one off race that would
:: :: attract a lot of good boats. Also, everyone would get a
:: :: chance to check their trailors for a short hop home
:: :: anticipating the fleet might travel to destinations
:: :: farther away on the future for such a one off event.
:: ::
:: :: Mike
:: :: :: I have been trying to hold off from getting too involved
:: :: :: with the back and forth posts below, but I feel that
:: :: :: since I am an owner I will put out my two cents.
:: :: ::
:: :: :: We all have opinions and personal agendas to think
:: :: :: about, but first and foremost we should be thinking
:: :: :: about what is best for the class. If the class decides
:: :: :: to change a rule then it should be done because it is
:: :: :: going to better the class. In other words, what is going
:: :: :: to get more boats out on the starting line? That should
:: :: :: be our primary goal. There are far too many boats
:: :: :: sitting on the hard and not being used and we need to
:: :: :: come together and figure out how to fix this!!!!!
:: :: ::
:: :: :: If we want to compare our fleet to the Moore24 fleet, we
:: :: :: should be looking at what are they doing differently
:: :: :: that gets 30+ boats on the starting line regularly?
:: :: ::
:: :: :: I am one of those skippers who is over the 200 lb mark
:: :: :: and I don't have a problem getting crew to weigh in at
:: :: :: 880. That being said, I have no personal reason against
:: :: :: changing the weight limit to a higher one either. I
:: :: :: would only ask to prove to me that raising the weight
:: :: :: limit is going to get more boats out on the starting
:: :: :: line. If you can do that, then I would go along with the
:: :: :: change.
:: :: ::
:: :: :: Anybody else have any suggestions on how to improve
:: :: :: class participation? I would love to hear other thoughts
:: :: :: and suggestions on this topic.
:: :: ::

:: :: :: -Jason