Mike, You are my friend so with all due respect I think it is important to debate this from both sides.

First of all the class has been very stable for 10+ years and if it ain't broke don't fix it!

I am 165# and have a 250# crew man and 2 girls and 1 young guy to round things out. I first sailed in these boats as a junior with you and Mike H. and have never forgotten the good times. Thanks!

As the class measurer I am concerned about the boats and they are getting older along with the rest of us. Lets not make things harder on us all!

Also I do not want to sail with 6 crew or sail with the # 1 into 20kts of breeze. This is what upping the weight limit would mean to many of us- as well as the need to buy a whole new sail inventory and what not. I am a sailmaker but an Express owner first!

Fly weight drivers or heavy drivers- Jeff weighs about 250 and won the nationals 2 years ago as the driver. I am sure that a veteran crew of 4 big guys could find a way to duke it out with the rest of us.

I like your proposals for a fun serries or long distance serries. I hope the Desperado will sail over to the TYC for a beer and dinner on saturday. Cheers, Will

:: Hi Will:
::
:: I understand your point that five people are easy to
:: administer . . . and four our even easier if that's
:: what's needed to make the 880# limit.
::
:: And as your aware, I've never been prejudice to
:: recruits; whether juniors, woman, or other lighter
:: people, except when they are little people forming a
:: voting block to impose a weight restriction which favors
:: them and all of their little cohorts.
::
:: Please note, four crew at 880# have a distinct
:: disadvantage against five crew at 880#. Those
:: disadvantages are associated with one of the two heavier
:: people being off the rail through a tack to pull in the
:: headsail. And, for the first few seconds afterwards,
:: only one person really is hiking out on the rail.
::
:: So five people at 880# have an advantage over four
:: people at 880# through the tacks. More of them are on
:: the rail following the tack . . . and less of them,
:: wieght wise, are off the rail.
::
:: Additionally, I weigh between 230 and 250, and my butt's
:: in the back of the boat, all the time, regardless of
:: when maneuvering. People around my weight have a
:: material disadvantage, all the time, with the 880# limit
:: because we present a quarter of that limit . . . in the
:: back of the boat.
::
:: Now, you might be lucky enough to be an iternally skinny
:: guy. But for most of us post 40 types, that's not the
:: way nature works; regardless of whether we like beer and
:: wine; or not.
::
:: I'm not saying its impossible to be competitive with
:: four . . . but to pick up your point . . . simply that
:: it is not equal.
::
:: Per your point that boats blow up with 1050#s of crew.
:: Sorry, that's simply fallacy. I've raced with
:: extraordinarily heavy crew; from time to time. And the
:: only structural fatigues were associated with things
:: that wern't engineered quite right to begin with
:: regardless of how much weight was on the boat. Just look
:: at the Light'n Up sailing with 12 to 15 all the time.
:: The boats in great shape.

:: Again, the ideal weight for the boat is around 1050#.
:: And, its easy to find five normal Americans too fit that
:: framework.
::
:: Further, when I weighed 165 pounds at 6' 1", I sailed
:: the boat with six, at 1030 to 1050#. So, here's an
:: opportunity to take the junior or girl friend. I know, I
:: know, its an extra sandwich . . . and someone's job
:: becomes delgated to the vang and cunningham. But for the
:: owners, the boats are much more fun so sail as much more
:: powerful; especially upwind.
::
:: :: Mike,
::
:: :: I know for a bigger guy finding 5 that fit in the weight
:: :: limit can be tough- but a weight limit is critical for
:: :: fair racing on our light boats. Elimination of the
:: :: weight limit would lead to the elimination of small
:: :: people (Ladies!) from sailing the boats, increased wear
:: :: and tear from sailing with much more weight, the need to
:: :: buy new sail inventories to take advantage of more
:: :: righting moment, and less comfortable (and expensive
:: :: sailing!) because most boats would have to sail with 6
:: :: to be competitive. Trying to find that one person big or
:: :: small to hit the weight right can be tricky- but do you
:: :: want it to be all about finding the 6 biggest all the
:: :: time? The Moore 24 class recently imposed a weight limit
:: :: for just this reason!
::
:: :: In the old days with the 1000# crew weight many more
:: :: Expresses lost rigs, broke gear, and even seperated
:: :: bulkheads trying to sail around in 18-20kts with their
:: :: number 1 up. This does NOT sound like fun to me! The
:: :: 880# weight limit is more comfortable to sail the boat
:: :: with, cheaper in MANY ways, and is more inclusive of
:: :: woman and juniors that are all important to fun sailing
:: :: and the future of our class!
::
:: :: As a solution it is possible to sail competitively with
:: :: 4 big guys- Jeff Thorpe got third in his first Nationals
:: :: in 98 like this. Also invite juniors from your yacht
:: :: club to join your team. Young kids are eager, hard
:: :: working, and soak up waves on the bow better than us
:: :: older people.
::
:: :: Cheers Mike- I hope to see you join the fleet for some
:: :: one design racing soon!
:: ::
:: :: ::
:: :: ::
:: :: :: Please see Tiburon Yacht Club Event Bulletin Board to
:: :: :: chime in on re-exaimining the virtues (OR NOT) of the
:: :: :: 880# weight limit.
:: :: ::
:: :: :: Mike Bruzzone